Dog Training & Health

[lcoreo5]

lets start off with the problem here.... i have a friend who's father adopted a 2 yr old GSD. He has terrible anxiety issues to say the least. he flips out when someone comes in, barking pacing etc... then he triples in anxiety when you leave. he guards the door, he whines and barks and looks rather intimidating. he hasn't bit anyone in that situation yet. if they grab him by the collar he has bitten before. sooooo her father has "tried everything" as he said. everything including a spray bottle, an air horn, a rolled up newspaper, his fist...... none worked so he went out and bought an ecollar. my friend and her mother hate the thing so they refuse to shock him. her father misuses it and uses the remote as a threat, then he beeps it a million times, then shocks him on the highest voltage. some times he doesn't even warn him and just lets him have it. today when i went over there, i was standing in the kitchen and he was pacing the whole time i was there. whining CONSTANTLY! when i went to leave, her father was zapping him so badly he would convulse and spray drool. and he was still acting crazy!!! it made me sick to my stomach...

Here is my dilemma. I am a dog trainer and i see a million and one things that they are doing wrong. I have tried to talk to her mother to give her some tips. they wont listen. in fact, her father was beeping like crazy with out zapping and my friend told him that was wrong. shes like, "Laura, you are a dog trainer, isn't he doing that wrong?" And i told him yes, and told how to use it properly and he said that just because i agreed with Amy, my opinion was null and void. I feel so badly for the dog and i know i could help them if they would give me the chance... i feel as if this is like when you see a parent in the store hit their kid. do you step in and say something, or do you look the other way?? what would you do people of seefido???

btw, i'm not really looking for advice on how to treat the dog, i'm looking for advice on how to talk to my friends parents, if i should try to at all.... thank you!!!

[meezermom]

This is a tough situation but the obligation to the dog is most important. He is brutalizing this poor dog....Talk to the wife and daughter and tell them the responsibility is theirs to take the dog to the vet........tell them what has been going on and ask if he feels there is any hope the dog can be rehabbed. IF not, then the dog should be humanely put down and they need to discuss this afterwards with the father. He is an abuser. And he is getting off on abusing the dog. I would let them know that if they do not do this, you are asking if they will sign the dog over to you so you can take the dog in and see if the dog can be helped. To be honest, I am not sure. A professional could certainly help this dog but he does not deserve being turned over to anyone else. He has been terribly abused. If they refuse, I think I would honestly call it in as an abuse case.....Torturing a helpless dog is about as low as a person can get and this guy is really really low. I would have no problem turning him over to the police.....but before that I think I would duct tape his hands behind him, put the collar on him and sit and shock the crap out of him for awhile, just so he can see what he has done.....I would wonder if he isn't smacking his wife around on the QT...

[Jasmer]

You know, a few of my friends bought a bark collar as a joke and tried it on. They found that laughing set it of, as did the subsequent "ow ow ow OW OW!" Needless to say none of them are comfortable putting one on their dog unless it's a last resort, and the same goes for shock collars. Once people try them out on themselves they realize WHY they are a last resort, they're incredibly distracting and alarming, and can be very painful.

This man is making an anxious, nervous dog worse, not better, and by now he damn well knows it. At this point he's abusing the dog out of spite because the dog won't be what he wants it to be. He won't allow you or his family to help because by damn he won't be wrong and he's getting some twisted sense of satisfaction by tormenting this dog. The dog needs to be seen by a vet immediately. Your friend and her mother need to take him in and describe exactly how often he is shocked, why he is shocked, how long he is shocked, and how many times per fit of rage her husband shocks him. If the dog is forced into a drooling heap on the ground then he's causing physical damage. I'm going to bet he's got the voltage cranked up to maximum as well. The collar itself shouldn't have enough voltage to kill the dog but physically they can cause burns and pain and the psychological trauma so much unwarranted, improper use of a training tool is debilitating. The level of anxiety this dog has reached can make him dangerous, even to his own family, and you can bet this man will never acknowledge it was his fault.

Tell them if they can't rehome this dog to a willing, licensed behaviorist then it's in the best interest of both family AND dog to have him humanely euthanized. This dog will not recover without the help of somebody thoroughly knowledgeable in canine behavior. Rehoming him to friends or other family or the animal shelter will likely only result in him being adopted out to a well-meaning family that just isn't equipped to handle him. He may become a bite risk or they may simply grow frustrated and return him. Tell them they can also turn him over to animal control. They can have him evaluated and may know of somebody willing to take him in and undertake the extensive work this dog will need.

Don't waste your time with the husband. He thinks he's right. He doesn't take your extensive knowledge on the subject of dog obedience seriously, especially when it puts him in the position of being "wrong". He may not see the dog as a living creature, but as an object, which is common and makes abuse and neglect easier to fall into. If his family won't put a stop to this then file an abuse claim with animal control.

It's unfortunate that he won't allow you to help him have the happy family dog that he wants. It's equally unfortunate that he can't connect the dots and realize he's making his dog's behavior worse, not better. It's even more unfortunate that his family continues to allow this to happen. They need to realize that keeping their dog in this environment means keeping him in a situation of deliberate abuse and torment. This abuse is animal cruelty, and may even be legally defined as such, which means removal of the dog at the very least, and heavy fines and jail time if they're feeling particularly vindictive. Make sure your friend and her mother know that if they get another dog after this, the shock collar is to be smashed under a rock and thrown away and the dog is to be properly obedience trained, whether by you or another trainer is irrelevant. Make sure their future trainer knows that a shock collar is out of the question as it has been terribly abused in the past, and the same will likely go for prong collars and any other physical tool that can be abused. I'd hate to see this guy with a prong collar in his hands.

In the end it all boils down to this: the dog needs to be rehabilitated by a professional or euthanized. Having rehabilitated my own husky from the same sort of mental state this shepherd is in, I'm aware of just how much work they would be asking somebody else to take on. This kind of rehabilitation can take years, and he may never, ever fully recover, though he can be made adoptable.

Like I said, don't waste your time with the husband. Talk to your friend and her mother. If they are unwilling to give the dog up then report the case as the prolonged, ongoing animal cruelty that it is and hope animal control will get a good enough glimpse of the dog's behavior to remove him.

[meezermom]

I did a bit of checking and the dog needs to be removed from the home immediately.......and charges need to be filed. You are probably going to lose a friend but do you honestly want a friend who will stand by and watch an animal being tortured like this? My guess is her father has been abusive to her all her life........and her mother too! They are probably afraid of the bastard....and sitting in jail for a time will do him some good....But, you need to contact animal control or whoever it is in your area and have the dog removed ASAP!!

[lcoreo5]

Her father isnt physically abusive to her and his wife, but he has been emotionally abusive. I feel as if i sit down and spea to his wife, she will listen, but wont be able to follow through as i dont thin he will hear me out and try out what i say. I am close to positive that he doesnt have the patience to try to wor with him and rehabilitate the dog properly. as my friends mom said, "maybe he will just grow out of it, he is only 2..." i mean, c'mon.... they are ignorant. it is tough for me to go to the extreme of getting the police involved... no, i dont lie what i am seeing, that is why i am here looing for advice.... is there some way i could report it anonymously? i mean, i havent seen any burns on him yet, which i have seen on other dogs.... its terrible... any ways, if i reported anonymously, and the police came to investigate, i dont thin they would see what i see. i mean, the dog would go ballistic when they showed up, but im pretty sure he wouldnt hit the dog in front of them. i have never seen him hit the dog before. thats just what my friend said to me. it just stresses me out so much that i KNOW i could help and he wont let me. and lie i said, even if he did hear me out, would he follow through? i doubt it...

[meezermom]

I know here we can file with Animal Control and do it anonymously so maybe you need to call and tell them what you know and have seen and what the wife and daughter have told you. Considering how he is shocking the dog, there will be signs that a vet could see.... One thing also, I did consult with a vet here and the response was considering the level he is shocking the dog, the dog already has permanent neurological damage...There is a good chance the dog cannot be helped and it is dangerous now. Does this guy work? If so, then one of them needs to have the guts to take the collar and control and destroy it....I guess I can be rather rigid and would not stand by and watch someone abuse an animal like this. The dog has done nothing to deserve the torment it is suffering and if nothing else, a kind and gentle death would be better than a living hell...

It may also be possible to talk to the police on the non-emergency line and tell them what you know and ask their advice....they may be able to step in.....but in all honesty, the wife or daughter could and should take the dog in to the vet and get the abuse documented so if nothing else, it can be used to prevent the bastard from ever owning another dog....

[Jasmer]

Taking the dog to the vet can also be used to cover themselves. They'll have a paper trail indicating they've tried to help the dog. Talk to the mother and if she doesn't follow through at least you can probably convince her to destroy the collar and control. The guy may be emotionally abusive at times but the dog can't do anything about it. At least a grown woman can make a choice whether or not to put up with him, the dog can't. While I'm not sure if a shock collar has the voltage to cause extreme neurological damage I am convinced that overuse, especially if it's cranked up all the way, can cause at least SOME damage. The damage, if it's there, will likely be permanent.

Tell this woman that this isn't entirely about animal cruelty. You may need to hit the right chord with her to get her into action. The state of mind this dog is in has made him dangerous. Severely distressed, anxious dogs are a bite waiting to happen, and then what would her husband do? Blame the dog, beat him half to death, then call animal control to clean up his mess. If anything convince her that this isn't about his anger problem, his stubbornness, or animal abuse, convince her at the very least that the more he pushes this dog the more likely the dog's self preservation instincts will kick in and somebody can be seriously hurt if he's pushed too far.

The least she can do is destroy the collar and the remote, or at least throw them away somewhere he won't be able to just dig them out. If he buys another one, destroy it. If they can manage that then the other ongoing abuse can bolster their courage to flat out remove the dog from their home. An argument WILL ensue, but the welfare of the dog and more importantly her family is at stake, so she needs to weigh the pros and cons carefully.

Try to remind her that a dog has the mentality similar to that of a child all their life. They don't "grow out of it" they are trained out of it. Yes, they mellow out a bit as they get older, but just because you see a german shepherd yapping at the fence as you walk down the street doesn't mean it's a puppy, it only means it hasn't been properly trained to keep a lid on it. Distressing a dog only makes them more jumpy and yappy. She knows this, she can listen to reason. She just can't stand up to her husband, which is understandable. Seems he can be quite intimidating when he wants to get his way.

You feel you can get through to him but that he lacks the patience to actually follow through with a working training plan. Then he has no business owning a dog, and if he's not mature enough to admit it and refuses your help then call animal control and ask their advice. Inform them that these are your friends and that destroying your relationship with them may not be an option. It's hard to know what to say in a case like this and what to do when these people are your friends. Keep talking to the mother and daughter about it and keep gently pushing them to do the right thing. They don't have to confront him over the dog, per se. They should tell him that obviously the dog isn't learning, obviously the dog trainer knows what she's talking about, he can read a few books on training or talk to a different trainer to confirm this, and obviously having a dog that requires more than minimal training is not right for the family.

Find out what they want in a dog. Does he want a family pet? A more easily trainable breed would have been a better choice, or a grown dog that is already trained. Continue to stress to the mother and daughter that his behavior is abuse, and is likely legally animal cruelty, and their reluctance to get involved only involves them more, both legally and ethically. You may have to just tell them flat out that if they can't step in you will. Their friendship means a lot to you but you can't sit by and watch this man turn his dog into a drooling, twitching heap because he doesn't know how to train it and refuses to learn how to train it. Tell them you can't sit buy and watch him punish a dog that does not know what it is doing wrong because it is not being shown. Dogs are smart, but they aren't capable of higher logic and reason, including "that man over there is shocking me because I'm anxious and bark and pace." The thought process is more like "oh god oh god this thing on my neck is going to zap me again oh god here it comes i know it's coming" on a constant basis. When the shock does finally happen it turns to "there it is again and now he's yelling and hitting me". He may not even associate the shock directly with the husband, but by now the dog is well aware that when the shock happens it means he's going to be zapped more and likely beaten for it.

Your friend is probably the best person to get through to since she's the one who asked for your help, and she's probably the one who will have to push her mother into doing something.