Dog Training & Health

[jdenham8]

Could any one advise!

I have a Collie who is nearly 3. We had her from 12 weeks and we have had virtually no problems with her. I done as much research as i could before i brought my dog and took on board that Collies can be difficult/misunderstood meaning many end up in rescue centres. I was determined to do the best i could.

The problem we have is that she is extremely protective over her territory/boundaries (and us) and while this is sometimes a good thing we back on to a public footpath and whenever she disagrees with whoever is passing will go into a frenzy. Should anyone approach our home we have to for-warn them to ignore her and not put there hands down to her as she seems to feel threatened and barks/snarls at them. Once inside, she will sniff and ponder untill she will nudge for there attention.

Today, someone did put out there hand to her and she bit them and drew blood. It was a realisation that i as an owner should have nipped this problem in the bud earlier and i need to take on board that somewhere along the line iv failed. I want to address this problem straight away.

To give you some background history: She was introduced to puppy training as soon as she had her jabs which we continued for a year. She was well socialized with all sorts of breeds. She gets at least and hour and a half walking time per day, we play frisbee endlessly which she loves and we also do Agility which she enjoys. She gets alot of family time and the kids have never neglected or ignored her...she is a little over loved maybe. She has bounderies that we have maintained since being a puppy and have not experienced any major problems within the home. She is hardly ever left alone and should we come unstuck - nan and grandad step in!
Clearly though i have missed something!!!

Any suggestions please!!
Janice

[Jasmer]

Sounds like dominance or fear aggression. Google NILIF and get her started on it right away. Talk to a few obedience trainers in your area, describe the situation, and ask if any of them are willing to work with you on this. Avoid trainers from retail stores as they generally only follow one specific guideline as per company policy.

A dominant or fearful dog can become aggressive, and is therefore not fit to be put in a position of decision making anywhere outside a pack of feral dogs . She's getting plenty of exercise so it's likely not due to frustration and anxiety. Dogs generally don't make decisions that are acceptable in a human environment, and since the pack leader's role is the pack's decision maker, curbing dominance is important. Dominant aggressive dogs can be intimidating or downright scary, especially if they're biting and drawing blood. Fearful dogs will often lash out in a similar manner, though obviously for different reasons. Putting all humans in the position of dominance over the dog and maintaining that dominance in a consistent manner provides stability as the dog is fully aware of its position within the pack and knows exactly what is expected of it. Nervous, scared, or anxious dogs are not happy when it falls to them to make a call on what or who is or isn't acceptable for the pack, and find it very stressful, hence the common overreaction and aggression.

If your dog is exhibiting dominance then simply getting her effectively put in her place, properly, will curb this aggression. If she's a dominant dog by nature then you'll not be able to give her an inch, as she'll take advantage if she can. It's just basic canine psychology. If her problem is more fear-related, giving her a clear-cut role in the pack below the human decision-makers will relieve a lot of that stress and tension. A behaviorist may be necessary to help you with the remaining symptoms, as the irrational fear will likely still be there.

Keep in mind that she feeds off of your own reactions. When you see somebody approach and anticipate her aggression, she'll pick up on this and, like a self-fulfilling prophecy, she'll react to your tension directed at the oncoming stranger and react aggressively. I've got oodles and oodles of information but am kind of pressed for time, I just thought I'd give you a good start until somebody (or myself) has more time to get into specifics with her behavior. NILIF right now is the best start and perhaps consulting with a trainer or behaviorist.

[meezermom]

Hello Janice and welcome to SeeFido!!

Border collies are known for their quirks! I am curious about a few things. Has she always been nippy? Even in play? It is a bit of a trait of this breed. In fact, many of the herding breeds tend to nip at hands or heels..After all, the best way to herd things is to nip at them! She may well have done this as a puppy and at the time, it was ignored of thought of as cute. Even something as simple as nibbling at fingers. That is what needed to be stopped. They need to learn quickly NO TEETH! Teeth are not something that should ever touch skin....
It sounds like you have both fear aggression and guarding!

Now a couple things. First of all, YOU are in charge here. You know her issue therefore when people, you are your dog's advocate. You step up and insist that NO ONE touch your dog without asking your permission. No exceptions! NO ONE is allowed to reach over her to touch her. NO ONE is allowed to lean over her. By doing so, they are showing dominance/aggression and she is not going to tolerate it. Let her make the move. If you are somewhere and someone comes over with the attitude they ARE going to pet your dog, simply step in front of her. YOU control the situation....When you have her in the position you wish for an introduction, there is a proper procedure, the person offers their hand, palm down. After she sniffs and she appears okay with it, they may scratch under her chin, then along side her face, up around the ears and then along the top of the head and no further. Not the back of the neck or anywhere else unless her body language indicates she is relaxed....they may then offer her a treat. No sudden moves.
IF people are sticking their hands through your fence, they get nipped, their problem! However, you can post signs that say Dog In Yard. Do Not post Beware of Dog signs otherwise that can be interpreted as you knowing you have a dangerous dog...

Read and follow NILIF! You need to place yourself in the alpha position and learn how to do it. NILIF will help you do that. If she tries to use her teeth on anyone, tell her NO TEETH in a growly low voice.....

I need my coffee and to think and will get back to this a bit later!!

[jdenham8]

Thanks to both Meezermom & Jasmer for replying,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you both - i have a busy life and work shifts! I will most definitley google NILIF and see what its all about.

I have since visited my vet who has put me in touch with a dog behaviourist and im awaiting her call! I just hope its not beyond my purse!!!

I have heard all you both say and i do realise i will have to be more dominant than her and change any pattens iv created. She has many rules within the home which she abides without question. Its more outside maybe i need to apply these rules. Even on visiting the vet for advise in the week she sat so close guarding me that the lady could see it was best to keep her distance.

Each time i have a visitor to the house (or even meet anyone outside) i do ask them to ignore her completely and have been doing this for some time which works....much earlier on she would submissive wet when we had visitors so i knew she was fearful. Ignoring her meant she didnt wet any longer. To shut her away when there was a knock meant she would run to the person who knocked at her door and then bark at them and so i abandoned that idea!

I done all of her training and still do. I shared it with the family and we all tried to keep it consistant but of course she knows who she can dominant more than me and i guess she is dominanting me in some ways. She did nip a little at the heels as a pup but never in excess and she was always corrected.
My son who is 15 does play a little ruff with her and although she seems to enjoy this type of play iv now asked him not to do it any more. He had hold of her when she bite the lady.
The lady in question - a dog groomer, has been great and luckily for me not taken the matter any further. Iv invited her over to meet her again when she is ready.

right, now off to have a read of this NILIF.......

Thanks
Janice

[meezermom]

Oh boy!! A 15 year old son!! Boys tend to be a bit of an issue when dog training mainly because they simply love to get down and rough house with the dog and for the most part, the dog loves it! He might actually like teaching her fly ball or Rally instead! He can compete in Rally and actully title her and it is a great way to meet girls!! Nothing says neat more than a super well trained dog when you go hang out at places!! Mom, you gotta get them where their attention is! This breed is normally pretty nippy so it takes time and effort. It is not unusual for a groomer to get nipped! Many tend to be overly baby talking pushy girls who will put their faces and hands in danger. Now before I get bit, I am not saying all! This has been my own experience from observation. And these are the groomers at the pet stores.... Often the dogs who need grooming are the dogs that are babied and will put up with this. But it is important that you advocate for your dog. Do not hesitate to remind people she does not like having hands waved in her face!

She is also obviously overly protective towards you and your son.... She will need to learn how to relax about that. And it may simply be enough to work the Tellington Touch with her. It is a message method that works as a relaxation technique and can help a stressy dog. See how that works.....

[jdenham8]

Thanks again for your interest,

Yes my 15 year old son could be useful in training her into something else other than play fighting but it'll take up to much of his 'free' time.....dont think i'll be able to persuade him!!
I have a behavourist visiting shortly and while i await her arrival iv been looking at how me and the family have been with our dog over the last year and i suppose although strict we have been lax of late so its time to get strict again. I read the NIF...web site (sorry name escapes me) you suggested with intrest which has given me some ideas i just need to find ways of implimenting them around our work schedules.
For the most part she is pretty good with boundaries and easily trained so im hoping i can get through this.
We do now always tell people shes vary of hands and most people are quite happy to ignore her until she is ready to accept them.

I will get back to you when the behavouist has visited if only to share her ideas and let you know what she suggests - it may help others!
In the mean time, id like to say thank you to those of you who helped.....

Janice

[meezermom]

I hope the behaviorist has sensible suggestions that are going to be easy to use and common sense.... one thing to be aware of, IF she recommends your dog spend a few weeks at her site where she will fix the problem, tell her no thank you. You do not want your dog sent away to be trained! Too often those type places can brutalize a dog and the situation is worse. If you complain, you are told your dog is not trainable.... So hope she works with you..... Often when we find our dog isn't up to snuff, we do notice we have backslid....I have noticed it here as it has become crazy because of the holidays and other things. So at the moment, the girls are certainly not behaving well.